Kevin Talbert, Education Professor at the College of Idaho and PNC Fellow with the Fred Rogers Institute, joins this episode of Listen to the Helpers to share how the core of his work is inspired by the work of Fred Rogers, and how he aims to extend that legacy in his own way.
Listen to the full episode below:
Sarah Goehring: Welcome back to Listen to the Helpers, a podcast created by the Fred Rogers Institute to elevate the voices of helpers everywhere. Fred Rogers once said, "When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping." Today, we're joined by Kevin Talbert, an education professor at the College of Idaho and a PNC fellow with us at the Fred Rogers Institute. At the end of this episode, stay tuned as Kenzee and I reflect on our discussion with Kevin in the context of Fred Rogers legacy and our own work at the Fred Rogers Institute.
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Sarah: I'd like to start out by asking you to tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you're what you do.
Kevin Talbert: Awesome. Well, thank you for inviting me to to chat with you. Um, I'm Kevin Talbert. I am a professor of education at the College of Idaho, uh, which is a a liberal arts college about half hour west of Boise, Idaho. So, Southwest Idaho. Um, it's move in day today. Happy New Year to all you teachers who celebrate your new year at the in the fall instead of in the dead of winter. Um, and and excited to get going again. Um, I was formerly a high school social studies teacher back in Ohio where uh I did my my all my college studies and and taught. Um, and I am the the dad of a delightful uh three and a half almost fouryear-old. Um, and certainly much of my learning from Fred Rogers uh has come as much through being a parent as it has through my work as a teacher.
Sarah: Awesome. certainly relate to that that my learning of Fred Rogers has doubled in the time that I've been a parent.
Kevin: Totally. Totally.
Kenzee Knott: Yeah. So, what brought you to Idaho in particular from Ohio?
Kevin: Yeah. So, it was this job. Uh I I knew, you know, I went I went to grad school with the intention of becoming a college professor, a professor of education, and you know, I like to like eat and have a place to live and stuff like that. And so, you know, when I was graduating, I said, "I cast my net wide. I don't, you know, have anything in particular that that draws me or that that keeps me in in Ohio." At that time, I didn't have a family. I wasn't married. Um, and so, um, thought, you know, I can always come back if I need to, but, um, let me just do this grand adventure and find a school that I think's a good fit. And, um, and I hit the jackpot. Um, the college has been a great fit. I love Idaho. Um, so yeah, it's been it's been amazing. Met my wife here in in new faculty orientation. Uh, and the rest is history. So,
Sarah: oh, that's so cool that that it's become such a such a home for you now.
Kevin: Yeah, totally. Totally.
Sarah: You're a professor of education and you work with service teachers?
Kevin: Mostly pre-service. Yeah. Um, I do some work with inservice teachers. So those who already have teaching positions and then are you know come back to extend their work. But most of my work has been with yeah with pre-ervice teachers who are you know learning who have the desire the heart to be a teacher uh and are learning to be a teacher. Um my work is in the sort of social and cultural theory around education. Why do we school? Questions of purpose. What what is this thing called education? What's that all about? um and helping students um yeah sort of take a broader scope on their teaching um beyond just the methods but also the why. Why are you doing this? What do you want out of this? How does school fit in a larger conversation about democracy and living well together in the world?
Sarah: Oh, that is really really interesting and really impactful work. And that leads me to our next question for you. You're working with students to figure out their why. Why do they do what they want to do? Why do you do what you do?
Kevin: Yeah. Oh, man. It's I mean, well, first off, you you you mentioned it, right? Like sort of the the depth of the questions that I get to ask with students and explore and then that spark that comes, right? Um when when you watch them grapple with those questions and then find their own why, right? and begin to go, hey, I think I like this and hey, I think I'm good at this. Um, but I wouldn't be able to do that without someone having invested in me, right? I mean, we all know one of Fred's favorite quotes, right, is appreciation is a holy thing. Um, if there hadn't been people who looked at me, saw something, and said, you know, you might be good at this thing called teaching, right? I don't know if I'd have pursued it, right? But I had people at multiple points in my life say, you know, you might you might have something. You might have a gift for this. You should think about it. Right? And it took them seeing me, I think, authentically um for me to go, okay. Um yeah, I don't know that I don't know that I buy it, but sure. Right? And then you sort of grow into that thing, right, that uh that others see in you. Um, and so I've I've been blessed with with multiple instances in my life where that was ca the the case.
Sarah: That is so cool that you're inspiring the next generation of helpers in that way. And I I love that when when you made that comment of somebody saw that in you and you didn't know if you believed it at first, but okay, I'll do my best. I'll that for you. That kind of makes me that like impostor syndrome that I'm sure so many feel especially going into just adulthood in general and then having to be an adult world and that I'm sure that the students that you work with are right in the in the heart of that totally imposter syndrome or trying to figure out fit in the world. (You are) a guiding light for them in that time.
Kevin: Yeah. Totally Yeah. Well, I hope so. I hope I'm a guiding light not just annoying. Um but uh yeah, I mean it's part of what for me makes the job so fun, right? And so um inspiring for myself, right? Um and and inspiring in the sort of dorky sort of Latin root of the word, right? Is to breathe into, right? They that breathes into me, right? A sort of freshness and a reconnection to my own purpose because I get to see them Yeah. sort of go through that. Well, wait. This guy says I might be good at this and oh, this guy's, you know, presenting some ideas I've never gotten up close to and I but I think I like it, right? And then they start to see their own confidence and you kind of go, you know, my evil plan is working, right? Um, you know, yeah. Um, it definitely for me is um yeah, it's a both end, right? Like I think I get to see them get inspired, but that inspires me right back.
Kenzee: No, that's so amazing. Um, I think you and Sarah kind of touched upon this a little bit about the idea of the helper and how Fred said to look for the helpers. So, what do you think it means to be a helper?
Kevin: Oh, man. Um, well, first off, I maybe I need to just sort of say on the record that I think we too often when we share that meme of Fred's, right, look for the helpers, we forget that the context in which he often said that was to adults, not saying to to just look, be passive, wait for somebody else to help. He was actually saying, "Hey, the kids need to look for the helpers. You need to be the helper." Right? And so I don't want to miss that. Right? So, um, look for the helpers, but also be one if you can, right? And so your question really is about how do we be a helper, right? How is it that we can be a helper? And what does that mean? Um, and you know, for me, what does that mean in the context of being a teacher, right? Um, and I think there are a number of inspirations we can take from Fred's work. Um, one that we've already touched on, right? Like the appreciation, right? Can you see people more clearly, right? When I talk with my teachers, how do you see your students better, right? Like how can you know them more clearly, right? um so that you can shuffle through some of the um the sort of baggage that that we might have that that filters and frames our reading of those students. Um how can we how can we read them and understand them better? Um and then how do we as adults build a better world for kids? Right? To me, anybody that's that's a helper is is trying to make this world less awful for children. Um, and and again, I think that was part of Fred's core message. Um, and and part of why his work has been so inspiring to me, why I found such connections to his work as I think about it, uh, for engaging teachers, um, you know, the helpers of those who are out there doing things to make the world better, uh, and especially to make it better for kids, right? Um, I mean, I guess another way of thinking about it for me is, you know, we often talk about, oh, children are our future, but again, that that kind of bugs me because it lets us off the hook so often, right? It's like, oh, our kids will come bail us out, right? Well, no, kids are our present. What kind of world are we building now that we've brought these kids into? Right? Like, no. Right? like the world that our kids are in implicates us, right? So, let's make it better. Let's be some helpers for these kids. Um and make the make make the barriers lighter, make the burden lighter, right? Um yeah. And so I think about that a lot. Um even with how I approach um teaching teachers and what it means to be a teacher.
Sarah: I love that perspective shift of thinking about of course children are our future and everybody I don't can disagree with that because they quite likely will be the next generation of adults but I love that perspective shift of yes and what are we living in now what can we do for them let's not wait for them to build a better future and yes they hopefully will but also what can we do now.
Kevin: yeah let's not screw it up so much that they have to right? Like, you know, can we let our kids coast a little? That wouldn't be the end of the world. You know, they'll have problems of their own, right? That the that their world will have to encounter. We don't we don't need to make it worse while we're at it. And we we can do the opposite if we if we choose to.
Sarah: Yes. and thinking about you explaining how being a helper means to inspire other adults to be helpers. Not only do you work with pre-service teachers and some inservice teachers, but you're also a PNC fellow with the Fred Rogers Institute and in that work you get to help current helpers. And can you talk a little about a little bit about the work that you do as a fellow with us and your work?
Kevin: Sure. Yeah, for sure. So the the work I mean grew out first of my my participation right of the educators neighborhood group um and that cohort of folks who um the institute was so is so good at setting up these meeting places right um and putting interesting people and and experience and Fred's work right um in front of us um and so you know I just wanted to keep digging in and then you all were gracious enough to go um hey do you want to lead a small group of fellow higher ed folks and I said that sounds cool right let's do that um and so yeah I facilitate a discussion group of other folks um some way affiliated with higher ed not all of them are teacher educators in fact this past year most of them weren't right they were higher ed in some capacity um but you know we had uh folks who did research and deans of of um um of their particular institution we had historians and environmental studies folks. Um, but it was such a rich because we were able to sort of again explore the depth of Fred's pedagogy, right? What I now have come to call his Fredagogy. Um, because why not make a pun out of that if you can, right? Um, from so many different angles, right? It's so rich for exploration. Um, even though on the surface it's so it seems so simple. Um, and so yeah, I had the delight of just trying to ask good questions in front of people, right? Which in some ways is how I sum up my job. Like what do you what do you do? Well, I go to work every day and I try to ask good questions in in front of other people, right? And that's the essence of what I try to do. And sometimes that works better than others.
Kenzee: No, I love the term Fredagogy. I feel like I'm going to have to use that now in my dayto-day language and also eliminate “children of the future” that might be eliminated from my vocabulary as well. Um, but just getting to work with the higher red fellows and all of those different backgrounds. Um, what do you think was the outcome of that? Like despite the fact that they're all from they're still those different contexts though, like do you still feel that they were able to connect in some capacity?
Kevin: I mean, I hope so, right? I think they expressed uh you know some some connection to the content of Fred's work that is illuminating in their particular context. Um but I also think one of the recurring themes not just in that group but in my own experience and in hearing reflections from other groups through educators neighborhood I've been affiliated with. You know, I think one of the common themes is the invitation to stillness, right? We like we get to take this moment where we push everything out of the way and we center ourselves in Fred's work, right? And so there's a a sense of sort of yeah stillness and peace about it um that people appreciate. It's like I just get to take a moment to breathe in the world um with other people who share similar affinities um and dig into these deeper questions. And boy, that's refreshing from the hustle and bustle of of the rest of my life. Um, you know, there's it's often quite the contrast to walk out of a faculty meeting and into the work of Fred, right? Oh, you know, such high stakes and we can haggle over, you know, what what is meaningful, right? Um to to the work of being a college professor. Um but sometimes is is also disconnected from these questions of deeper purpose, right? we're sort of haggling over um sort of efficiencies. Um but this moment to center and go, okay, yep, I'm I'm reminding myself of my own goodness in the world and why I want to do this. Um and I think yeah, I think that's been a key takeaway for folks.
Sarah: I'm so glad to hear that that's such a recurring theme and a key takeaway for for the group have led and hopefully that will continue to be a theme. Yeah. Okay.
Kevin: Yeah, for sure.
Sarah: But that that makes me that makes my heart happy to know that people are pulling away from that group because everybody that and that's such a such a key theme in the work of Fred Rogers anyway. that's a message that's spreading across contexts and and walks and… (inaudible)
Kevin: Yeah, for sure. For sure.
Sarah: So, can you tell us thinking about your work in higher ed, um what is something that maybe you wish people knew about what you do? Maybe something that goes unseen.
Kevin: Oh, man. Um I mean it I don't know that this is unique to higher ed um as much as it is to the work of teaching, of being an educator. Um, and that is I mean not to again just fill the whole episode with like Fred cliches, but um, but how much of it is invisible to the naked eye, right? Um, how much you can miss in the beauty of what happens with a good teacher. Um, and how much we miss of like preparation and the heart and soul and spirit that they're bringing to it, right? um there's so much behind it and there's so much rich that happens in it. So, so for example, right, so my son um is not quite for we've got him in swim lessons. We're hoping, you know, he can learn to swim um and he's at a local YMCA and watching this swim teacher as a as a person who teaches teachers has just been marvelous, right? because there's these subtle moves that she's able to do, right, to get him to do things he's not otherwise inclined to. And there's a joy there, right? And my eye, I think, is trained to see that. But I think it'd be something so easy to miss in what she does, right? Um, and I don't think it's accidental and I don't think it's just because of a spark of, you know, in, you know, I think she's probably practiced, right? and cultivate it. It comes through experience, comes through training. Um, but it's so easy to miss. Um, and one of, again, it's one of the things I talk about with my with my teachers is I think so much of people's assumptions about teaching is that it's so easy, right? And they just don't know. And so, can we make it clearer about what exactly goes into it, right? like how big that undertaking is and then also the how much beauty there is in what a good teacher is able to do right with all kinds of sort of nuance and subtlety. Um just watching some a teacher in their element is just so beautiful. Um so yeah I think I would want people to to recognize that better um because I think it would it would help might help chill us out. right in in some of the negative things we we sometimes say about schools and about teaching. Um I think we might have a more expanded view.
Sarah: You're so right that a lot of it a lot of it goes so unnoticed and there's so much intentionality that teachers of any age whether it's higher elementary, middle, high school, a swim coach, any kind.
Kevin: Yeah, totally.
Sarah: There's so much intentionality that goes into every little detail of a lesson plan, of an activity, of a an assignment, everything.
Kevin: Totally. Yeah.
Sarah: It's I I feel like that swim coach I I hope I hope that you feel encouraged to tell that swimtally. Already she is doing a great job.
Kevin: Yeah, totally.
Sarah: I I that must feel so good when somebody does recognize.
Kevin: Yeah. Well, and and especially right like this, you know, you're you're putting your your child into the trust of that person, right? And so you also you want that, right? Um but when that's reciprocated, it's such a beautiful thing. Um and and you know, and my contention is, you know, the overwhelming majority of teachers want to do that and are doing that, right? Um and so yeah. Right. Are there are there folks who fall short of that? Sure. Right. Okay. You solved that 4% of the problem. Now what do you got? Right. Um so no totally. Yeah. Recognizing that and affirming that when we see it I think is is crucial.
Sarah: Absolutely. And I I know when I got my undergraduate degree in childhood education. So I went through student teaching experience and even going through when I had to be observed in my student teaching and a professor from St. Vincent come and observe obviously I'm nervous I'm a new teacher I'm scared teach awesome for the first time but I worked so hard and making sure that little piece was just so and and trying to be so intentional about everything that I'm doing and trying to be inspired by Fred Rogers in the process because I was involved in the institute's work and when somebody observing me would tell me oh this little thing that you did I noticed that I would over the moon because it'd be like oh my gosh it was worth
Kevin: Yeah.
Sarah: Or when a when a child would be like, "Oh, like I understand. I get it." Or they would, you know, ask question that I could
Kevin: Yeah.
Sarah: I I did it. I taught you (and I was) proud of myself.
Kevin: Yeah. Well, and and and again, I think that mirrors so much of of Fred, right, in the sense that it's so easy to overlook him and and oh, he was just as saintly, you know, he fell out of bed good at this, right? But as we know, he practiced being good, right? like that was it was for him a disciplined practice to try to be a better appreciator, right? To to see kids more he he worked so diligently with Margaret McFarland and and with folks who were um you know caregivers for children, right? He didn't just assume he knew it. He didn't have some innate he really practiced and worked hard, right? Um and so so much of that I think even in Fred was unseen, right? It's so easy to miss that. Um, but I think it's worth it to to to notice it, to affirm it, um, and to be transformed by it if we can.
Kenzee: Yeah. I actually I had somewhat of a similar experience. My background is in secondary education.
Kevin: Ah, sure.
Kenzee: So, I've got older kids, but when I finished student teaching. They created this like notebook full of like, "We're going to miss you. Here's what we remember most about you." all like little moments that were so different for like the 70 kids that I had. It was just so meaningful that they were like I try to be as intentional as I can, but there's sometimes when you know you're have all these kids in the curriculum and you're losing your mind and you're like okay even though I wasn't trying to be intentional about it just this small act of kindness that you remember and that's so important.
Kevin: Yeah. Well, and so Kenzee that I mean I think that that raises something so crucial to remember, right? Well, like what if the kids themselves are the curriculum? What if their growth, what if engaging in them as people and their growth into the world, what if that is the curriculum, right? We get so focused on I've got to do the content and I've got to meet the standards, right? Well, shouldn't those things be in the service? Those shouldn't be the goal. Those should be in the service of accomplishing this growing humanity with each other, right? Because what I hear you say is, oh, all of the evidence was they were they weren't pointing to some fact you taught them, right? They were they were expressing, oh, Kenzee saw me in that moment and this was a fun thing and this was this shared moment of human relation that we had, right? Oh, beautiful. What if that's the whole point, right? Like, can we let that be the whole point? Right? No, get those test scores up.
Sarah: That speaks back to the whole children are not the future, they're the present.
Kevin: Ah yes yes yes. Yeah. And and you know this is maybe the soap we've entered the soapbox portion of our program but I just think this is so important to to call out and is is certainly you know so central to the work I try to do with students.
Kenzee: No that's absolutely amazing. Um kind of a related question. You kind of talked about it earlier about your why and why you do what you do. Um, do you have a story for us that you could share about the time where you remembered what your why?
Kevin: Oh my. Um, yeah. I mean, so so maybe a couple of examples, right? Because when I when I talked about that, I talked about both people who sort of spoke that why into me, right? Who sort of saw something in me. Um, and you know, I think about my high school French teacher, uh, who after, you know, a presentation I did in class, she said, you know, hey, I, you know, you should think about this. I think you've got some, right? So, I she very directly sort of saw my why in that moment or spoke a Y into me. Um, and then, um, recently, a couple years ago, um, I always have students do end of end of course reflections and they sort of and they can record it. So, I don't make them write it. They can choose to just do a little video reflection. And one of the students said, you know, um, one of the things I found about your classes, um, are that, um, you don't give us the answers or even lead us to the answers. you help us ask better questions. And I went, "Oh, I mean, thank you." And also, yeah, right? Like that is I think what I do, right? And and um hey, that kind of worked, right? Like um and so that student was sort of able to mirror back to me, right? Um yeah, I think that is why I'm here and what I'm trying to do. Um, and I hope it works sometimes, right? So, for that student to affirm that, um, yeah, was really, um, helpful for me going, "Yeah, I think that's why I'm here." Right? Is to just have students think differently and ask different questions about the world that they encounter than they might otherwise have asked, right?
Sarah: Yeah, that's so great that you got that feedback. And we love hearing those stories of times remember their why. And that that's a that's a one where and I'm so glad that you give students this is kind of a side note but you give students the opportunity to record their thoughts and their back for you. I feel like that that's another obvious in everything that you said we have heard that you're doing an incredible job at what you do. That's like just that aside. It is another example of something that you do for your students that is a really really cool and I'm sure helpful thing because you're giving them another way to voice their opinions and concerns
Kevin: yeah well and for me right it's another angle of view on them right um for those students uh and and you know some of it is selfish by the end of the term I'm just tired of reading what they wrote you know but but yeah it also gives me a different angle of view on them right? Um it's it's sometimes more casual. It's I find it allows them to be more authentic. Um so that just helps me I think also understand my students better which for me is just part of the part of the work. But thank you for affirming that. Yeah
Kenzee: Oh my gosh, Kevin, you're just such an amazing human and helper and professor. Even though I haven't had you as a professor, I could just tell.. I just have we have one final question for you today. Do you have any final thoughts for our listeners?
Kevin: Oh wow. Um engage with Fred's work and just let it wash through you. um and join the Educator's Neighborhood and and um you know dig into that because it is a community of people all you know searching for the same kind of thing right um one of my favorite expressions one time you know I heard people of a community of faith use to express that journey right is that we're all beggars look find telling other beggars where we find bread. Um you know, so hey, you know, the the spring is over there, the water's over there. Let's go together, right? To drink from this uh from this well. Um you know, mixing the metaphors a little, but um but you get the idea, right? Like what I what I find valuable is um hey, there's people out there really drinking from this deep well of Fred's work. Drink it together. form groups of affinity and solidarity around that work. Um, and I think that alone can go a long way to helping us feel less awful in this moment, but also um, building a better world.
Sarah: Thank you so much for sharing that and thank you for taking the time to join us and and share a little bit about your story. and we obviously already knew you pretty well before this, but I feel like just the past 20, 30 minutes or so, we've learned so much more about what you do and why you do what you do. And it's just it's always a pleasure getting to talk to you.
Kevin: Well, thank you. And uh it's always yeah, both um a delight to talk about myself um but also uh humbling and and you know clarifying. Um so yeah, I appreciate the opportunity.
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Sarah: I love getting to talk to Kevin. He is just he's just one of those people who just brings me joy every time that I see him, every time that I hear his voice. He's just so wonderful.
Kenzee: Yeah, he has he has an amazing voice and he always has so many great things to say too. Like there's so many like I don't know phrases and just ideas that he had that I feel like I need to add to my vocabulary which I already said during the interview like the discussion we had. Um, like Fredagogy of helping.
Sarah: Yes, the Fredagogy. Why do we not use that in our day-to-day language? And now we're gonna have to.
Kenzee: I also want to make a point and we you kind of brought it up as a side note, but I want to re-emphasize. The fact that he has his college kids do video reflections is such a personal and lovely thing. And the fact that he remembered what that one student said makes me believe that he truly takes the time to watch every video and like really listens to their feedback and puts them into effect, too. Intentional and thoughtful guy.
Sarah: He really is. And I think you're right. I I don't doubt that he really listens and pays attention. Not only listens to listen, but listens to understand every single student. And I'm sure that that's how he approaches his small group and educator's neighborhood as well when people are talking even just with us. He listens to understand you know that's just the type of person he is.
Kenzee: So which fundamental do you feel really like stood out in this conversation.
Sarah: Yeah. I think I think of all of the six fundamentals of learning and growing self-worth and solitude stood out to me. self-worth for the conversation as a whole, but solitude I I had in the back of my mind when he was talking about particularly the themes and like outcomes of his small group of Educator’s Neighborhood higher ed folks. And he talked about one of the key themes or takeaway being that people could come together and find a moment of stillness, find a moment of being refreshed, find a moment of being able to he didn't use these words, but I'm thinking about slowing down. And that that really was, you know, the solitude light bulb was going off in my head because that's that is times of solitude even though it's in a community of other educators or other people. finding those moments to slow down, to take a deep breath, to reflect, and to just feel refreshed. That is practicing times of solitude. So, I'm so glad, first of all, that our Educator’s Neighborhood program can be that for some people. And I'm glad that he that he is able to help other educators in that higher ed space to practice those times of solitude because that's needed by everybody, especially people who are teaching.
Kenzee: Yeah. And I would even argue that I feel like trust came up quite a bit. There has to be trust in the relationship between the facilitator and the participants of an educator's neighborhood group. And in addition, he talks a lot about um how much heart and soul goes into the work of being a teacher. And I feel like there needs to be that reciprocated trust between both the teacher and the student. And even like a moment where he shares that story about his son learning how to swim in the swim teacher like his son trusted his swim teacher in order to teach him how to swim and also the swim teacher trusted the like his son to listen and be safe in the pool and so on and so forth. So I feel like trust also came up quite a bit.
Sarah: Absolutely. And in that swim teacher situation, Kevin also is trusting the swim teacher as a parent. He mentioned this that you hope that teachers are being intentional about what they're doing because as a parent you're trusting your child, their life, their mind, their their journey in life. You're trusting that teacher with your child. So yeah, I I agree that the trust was definitely a main part of that conversation with Kevin and he I feel like relationships were a grounding theme in that conversation with him. So what's at the root of relation positive impactful relationships? trust. So, I definitely agree with that fundamental being a common theme that was brought up.
Kenzee: Agreed.
Sarah: I love what he said about children not only being the future, but also being the present and that children being the future shouldn't let us as adults off the hook of what kind of world we're building for those children right now. I I think that was such a an interesting and much needed perspective that he offered on that
Kenzee: right? And it basically becomes a partnership of the generations, too. You're not making all these issues to give to the next one. You're all working together, like you said, to building a better world.
Sarah: I love that partnership of the generations. And that actually makes me think of how Fred Rogers creating Mister Rogers Neighborhood. Yes, it's a children's television show and yes, it was intended for children to view, but he didn't intend for children to watch it alone. He intended that to be kind of what you said, like a partnership of the generations because he wanted it to be a co-viewing experience. Wanted it to be a child watching with their trusted adult and being able to talk about the show. So, even all of the work of Fred Rogers was intended to have that generational partnership as well. So, I love that that's kind of tying in an essence of Fred's work, too.
Kenzee: Yeah. And the fact that the show was on for what, like 30 years? That's two generations right there that were impacted by it.
Sarah: And now Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood and Donkey Hodie and all of Fred Rogers production shows today. That's a new generation of of of children and their trusted adults that are getting to experience that as well.
Kenzee: Amazing. No, thank you again, Kevin, for being on our podcast today. Um, it was absolutely amazing.
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Kenzee: The Fred Rogers Institute advances the legacy of Fred Rogers by investing in the strengths of families and caring adults to support the healthy development of children. To learn more about the Fred Rogers Institute and our initiatives, visit fredrogersinstitute.org or and follow the Fred Rogers Institute on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and X.
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